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Messages - Tegwen

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1
Hi

I wonder if anyone can help with a casualty query from HMS FOX. She is in Archangel in 1919 & at 11pm on the 7th of July records receipt of 3 dead men's effects. Here is the log page.
 http://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-42115/ADM%2053-42115-006_1.jpg

Two of the men are relatively easy to read & to trace. They are John Sexton (Leading seaman, No J24832 ) & Thomas Cheesebrough (Ordinary Seaman No J84593). The dates etc of their death are recorded in the Naval History Casualties list here. http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1919b.htm. It has also been easy to find details on the revised Commonwealth War Graves site, including their memorials etc. They are recorded as killed in a mine explosion. That has not been recorded in the log, so I guess took place up river, where several detatchments of men have been sent, while Fox stayed in Archangel.

The difficulty comes with the third. The name is hard to read, my best guess is Sandler, but several other possibiliites exist. I can find no possible candidates either in Naval Casulaties or in the Commonwealth War Graves site, where it is possible to search by date of death & fairly easy as the numbers of casualties is low compared with the war years.

Obviously he could be a civillian seaman, so may not turn up in any of these searches, but it would be good to find him & remember him properly if possible.

Any help gratefully received.

K

2
Another feature of the recording of the causes of naval deaths, both at sea and in port, is that some of these were inevitably suicides. At a time when suicide was a crime, carried a great social and religious stigma and probably had an effect on pension rights, the Navy went to great lengths to mark these deaths as accidental. I have certainly seen several in logs that I have done and it is possible that Tegwen's Henry Burden fell into that category.

Sorry, I missed this one when it was posted. I agree that many of the deaths that we see were suicide, I have reported a few definite & a few possible myself. It is indeed possible that he threw himself under the train, but the family's understanding, as reported by the Misterton & W Stockwith History Society is that he was drunk & that it was an accident. That of course does not mean that it wasnt actually suicide while affected by alcohol.

Whatever the cause I trust that he rests in peace.


3
Dockside Cafe / Re: Whatcha listening to?
« on: October 07, 2017, 03:36:04 pm »
Having a day of Tom Petty. RIP.

I think he counts as your next hero Joan.

4
The Logs and FAQ / Re: New ship histories in our Magazine
« on: September 25, 2017, 02:38:01 pm »
The edited logs of HMS Whiting, with five Journey Plotter maps, have been published.
Thanks as usual to editor and mapmaker, Paul.

This marks the 250th published edit of our Royal Navy logs (some are not yet fully edited).
So .... well done us!
And a big round of applause for our esteemed publisher and Journey Plotter creator, Maikel.  ;D

Only 50 odd to go. Dont panic & dont all rush at once!!

5
HMS FOX, 20th Feb 1917, on route from Sokotra (off Somalia) to Aden. Records the death of Henry W Nye, M11456 (DEV) of Dysentry, and at 4 pm the same day his burial at sea. https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-42095/0013_0.jpg.

Extrapolating between the positions at Noon and 8pm gives an approximate location for the funeral of Lat 13.3, Long 49.4.

RIP Henry Nye.

6
Dockside Cafe / Re: Chat - 2017
« on: August 25, 2017, 12:25:08 pm »
Weird stuff - let's hope that someone gets episode 1 onto youtube  :-\



OK - that's it for me for a week. Off to the Devon/Cornish border tomorrow with the Pub Quiz friends. So South for lunch (Kernow Pasties - yuuuuum), and North for tea (Devonshire cream tea - yessss).

(Diet? I don't know this word  ;) ;D )

Will miss you all!  :)

The major intelectual difficulty with this itinery: jam or cream on top???

7
I am currently working on HMS Fox. Her log page for the 17th of November 1915 is here. She was in Suez. https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-42080/0011_1.jpg
At 3.15pm it records that she landed a funeral party for the funeral of.... and there is no name!!
There is no record of a death at all, on the previous days log, nor on any of the preceding days. This is the link to the log page for the 16th of November. https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-42080/0011_0.jpg
I did some research through the Naval History Casualties list & discovered that an RMLI Private named Henry Burden was the casualty on the 16th of November. I googled him & came upon some wonderful work that has been done by the Misterton & West Stockwith History Society, researching his history for the Nottinghamshire Roll of Honour. It is great to see this level of detail published for WW1 casualties. http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/rollofhonour/People/Details/22267
I noticed a tiny discrepancy on the cause of Henry Burden s death. The Roll of Honour mentions that RN&RM War Graves Roll records that the cause of death was 'killed or died by means other than disease, accident or enemy action.". Naval History casualties records his death as "sccident" (sic) (tiny typo could be corrected next time Maikel or Caro is working in that area)
The log gives nothing to help us get closer, not even mentioning the death. The only point which may be of relevance is that the 16ths log records that four warrants were read at 5.40am and that as a result four men were despatched to prison in Cairo.
My conjecture was that he may have been killed, by them, possibly in a fight or other incident.
However, I contacted the Misterton & West Stockwith History Society, via an email address on the internet.
I received an immediate response from a David Seymour confirming that their understanding was that Henry Burden died while on shore leave, by being hit by a train, while drunk. They have actually spoken to his descendants about the incident & that is their understanding. David sent me an article from a local newspaper confirming this, although not the fact that he was drunk!
It included text of a letter sent by the chaplain of HMS Fox to his parents describing his death & funeral & offering condolencies.
Presumably the imprisonment of four crew members was that his mates were disciplined for their presence at the incident.
I have remembered Henry Burden on the British Legion?s Every man remembered website. http://www.everymanremembered.org/profiles/soldier/473724/
Congratulations to the Misterton & West Stockwith History Society for their excellent research.
RIP Pte HENRY BURDEN. RMLI of West Stockwith.

8
Hi Joan.

HMS Mantis passed through Norwegian waters to & from Russia. On the way out she visited Langevag Fjord & Tromso etc in Mid July 1919. On the way back she visited Tromso, Allesund & Herdlo in October 1919. http://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-11-HMS_Mantis.htm

Not much of significant interest to Norwegian readers happened on either journey,  but it is clear that she moored up & on occasions received pilot assistance from Norwegian ports.

Hope this helps a little.


9
Dockside Cafe / Re: Whatcha listening to?
« on: May 27, 2017, 10:47:23 pm »
RIP Greg Allman

10
Two more deaths to report on HMS PERTH.

After three years on the Red Sea Patrol, she is returning to Britain. She is accompanying a convoy from Gibraltar to Milford Haven in October 1918 when the convoy spots a submarine. Her log records the action. The submarine (U139) appears to have surfaced & attacked with gunfire before submurging twice. On both occasions an officer on Perth was killed.

The submarine subsequently sunk one ship in the convoy.

Both men were buried at sea at 5 pm the following day, North East of her noon position at 42.7N, -9.4W.

Acting Sub Lieutenant Frederick Fotheringham A Stevenson & Assistant Paymaster Charles Maile. RIP.
Both commemorated on Everyman Remembered

11
Dockside Cafe / Re: Whatcha listening to?
« on: March 19, 2017, 10:49:14 am »
RIP Chuck Berry.

12
Dockside Cafe / Re: Whatcha listening to?
« on: March 10, 2017, 04:09:45 pm »
While I was typing the above I have on BBC Radio 4. The obituary programm is on & they have just announced that Pete "Overend" Watts, the bassist with Mott the Hoople has died.

They have just described him as one of the founders of Glam Rock. My excuse is that I was a fan way before that phase!!

One of my favourite bands of the 70s.

RIP Overend Watts.

13
Dockside Cafe / Re: Whatcha listening to?
« on: March 10, 2017, 04:07:43 pm »
Today I am listening to anything by Albert Lee.

Went to see him & his new electric band, in Bristol last night. and they were great. He is 74 and has the fastest hands I have ever seen.

His history is fantastic, played with the Crickets, the Everly Brothers, & Emmylou Harris among others.

Gosh! I feel ashamed that I don't know his name given his connections ...must get a taster :)

I hope you enjoy his stuff. In addition to his work with the above, he was a member of Head Hands & Feet, in the 70s & of a band called Hogans Heroes in the last 10 years or so. He was also Gram Parsons' guitarist for many years.

14
Dockside Cafe / Re: Whatcha listening to?
« on: March 09, 2017, 04:57:51 pm »
But did you get to see the Foo Fighters when they played Frome, Keith?

No I didnt, only found out that they were on from the local news.

For those who missed this item, they played an invitation only gig to announce that they will headline Glasto this year. Frome is a very small town & we have a concert venue called the Cheese & Grain Hall, capacity 500, which has had some great gigs, but the Foo Fighters are a little out of our normal league!!

It is probably the nearest decent hall to the Glastonbury Festival site, which I guess is why they chose it.

Frome centre was apparantly jammed solid the whole afternoon & evening.

I was going to post links to some of the news items, but Dave Grohl's comments from the stage here, about Trump & his supporters, when quoted in full, are not acceptable for this forum. Feel free to look them up!!

15
Dockside Cafe / Re: Whatcha listening to?
« on: March 08, 2017, 09:15:14 pm »
Today I am listening to anything by Albert Lee.

Went to see him & his new electric band, in Bristol last night. and they were great. He is 74 and has the fastest hands I have ever seen.

His history is fantastic, played with the Crickets, the Everly Brothers, & Emmylou Harris among others.

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