Author Topic: Type What You See - Questions and Comments  (Read 32155 times)

Janet Jaguar

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2012, 09:41:32 pm »
That has been true from the start.  They get listed separate.

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2012, 10:40:18 pm »
Concord - 1891

Concord changes barometer part way through 26 June 1891.
anaroid back to mercurial.
They got a new one on the 25th,
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 08:06:19 am by randi_2 »

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2012, 08:05:21 am »
Yukon - 1873

On April 28, 1873, Yukon starts a new log book using 'Nautical Day'

The log says that "this day has 36 hours to end sea time" and there is a 6 PM weather line at the bottom of the page.

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4137_1.jpg

The date is Sunday June 29 beginning at 1 PM so if this nautical day is 36 hours it should go to July 1 at 12 AM. The last entry on the page is 6 PM so this should correspond to the 6 PM entry on the following page. The following page is dated June 30th and begins at 1 PM so there must be an overlap?  But the entry for 6 PM is not the same as the last line on the June 29th page.

My guess is that when the Yukon arrives in port it changes from nautical to civil time. I have seen a mention of this in previous pages but I ignored them. Note, however,  that AM is crossed out on top of every page in the remarks section so all log pages supposedly begin at 1 PM of the date mentioned.

I know I should just transcribe it as it is written but should the science team be notified? This is very confusing.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 02:40:53 pm by randi_2 »

Craig

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012, 04:48:47 pm »
I shouldn't have said that I ignored the other references to time . I captured them all in Events.

Here's and example http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4136_1.jpg

"This day has 12 hours to end civil time". The following day they left  port.

Craig

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2012, 12:30:29 pm »
Normally the log keeper crosses out AM on the top line of the remarks column but he stopped doing this from July 11 to July 24. On the 23rd the Yukon left port and AM was crossed out on the 24th while at sea. On the 25th it arrived at Constantin Harbor, Amchitka Island and AM was not crossed out. However, this is not consistent because the ship was in Keystra Harbor for several weeks before AM ceased to be crossed out. My guess is that the log keeper just forgot to cross it out. Given the difference between civil time and sea time this is important. I have been consistenlty entering the first weather observations as PM regardless of whether AM is crossed out or not. I am quite confused as to what the real time is.

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4144_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4144_1.jpg


Craig

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 12:56:13 pm »
I just realized that one way to tell the time is to determine if the hour 12 in the middle of the page has the highest temperature, which it normally would be if it were noon rather than midnight. When the Yukon is at sea the lower temperature is usually in the middle of the page - indicating they are on sea time:

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4130_1.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4151_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4158_1.jpg

When the Yukon is in port, the higher temperature is usually in the middle of the page, indicating they are on civil time, even though AM may or may not be crossed out:

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4135_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4141_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4153_0.jpg

Type what you sea?  ;D

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2012, 01:31:42 pm »
Yes, when I got the Yukon sample pages and was trying to figure out what on earth (or sea) was going on, I also noticed the temperatures.

Quote
I have been consistenlty entering the first weather observations as PM regardless of whether AM is crossed out or not.
Hum. Perhaps you should just leave AM and PM off here :-\

In 1884, the AM and PM are no longer printed in the log, they are hand written - there you should definitely not change them.

Craig

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2012, 01:03:53 pm »
The log is quite clear and if I had kept my eyes open I would have noticed. When in port the Yukon is on civil time so the top of the log is AM and the bottom is PM. When it leaves port it goes to "sea time" with the top of the page PM and the bottom AM.

On the this page they are leaving port and the remark says "This day has 12 hours to end civil time". http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4150_1.jpg. There is no entry on the bottom half of the page because it would just repeat the AM for that day. Note the printed "PM" is crossed out.

The following page begins at 1 PM  and the printed "AM" and "PM" are crossed out. http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4151_0.jpg. I presume that the top half of "July 24" is July 23 PM and the bottom half is July 24 AM.

Since I stupidly assumed that the logs were always on sea time I have incorrectly put PM at the top and AM at the bottom up until July 13 1873 even when the vessel is in port. From then on I have done it correctly. I don't know if there is any point in going back to fix my errors? In any case, I can't go back far enough.


Craig

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2012, 01:24:51 pm »
I should have added that the "July 24" page includes 6 PM July 24 at the bottom, extending that day to 36 hours, since they have already arrived in port. The following "civil day" will begin 1 AM July 25.

It works, but I wonder why they went to all this trouble  ???

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2012, 11:49:12 am »
Here are the periods during the 1873 voyage to Alaska where the Yukon is on nautical time:

From http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4102_0.jpg  Apr 29
To http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4112_1.jpg  May 20

From http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4129_0.jpg  Jun 12
To http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4132_0.jpg   Jun 18

From http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4137_0.jpg  Jun 28
To http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4137_1.jpg   Jun 29

From http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4151_0.jpg  Jul 24
To  http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4151_0.jpg   Jul 24

From http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4158_0.jpg  Aug 7
To http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4164_0.jpg   Aug 17

From http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4169_1.jpg  Aug 28
To http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4172_0.jpg   Aug 31

From http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4187_0.jpg  Sep 26
To http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4191_1.jpg   Oct 5

From http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4195_1.jpg  Oct 17
To http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Yukon/Book%202/IMG_4204_1.jpg   Nov 6

(Nov. 6 is the last page in this log book)

I did not enter the AM and PM times correctly when transcribing so they should be ignored.

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2012, 11:34:42 am »

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2012, 12:15:54 pm »
Topic: half hour reading - Patterson

the log keeper inserted a 25th wind reading apparently in connection to a course change at about 9:30am, with a wind change at 10am.  Apparently in connection to a course change, although I don't know if the course change was planned or in response to the wind change.

I entered it even though it was only a ditto mark with no other information.  Will this mess up the analysts so I should delete it?  Or should I keep it?

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Patterson/Book%201/IMG_4785_0.jpg

Please put it in - it will complicate the analysis but I'm sure we'll cope.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 12:21:13 pm by randi_2 »

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2012, 12:25:08 pm »
25 weather entries per day?-Jeannette

You are not alone - this is the previous discussion in Jeanette's Discussion thread.  (Philip Brohan is one of our PTB who is a climatologist - he runs the analyst team that preps our transcriptions for addition to the global climate databases.  He's with the UK Met Office.  The other scientist is Kevin Wood with NOAA.)

Your transcription method is correct - we are putting data instead of any dittos for the 1pm readings, in case Philip's software discards the 'PM' line.  But that is not absolute.

Ummm...the 25 hour boat

There's a weather entry against 'PM' plus 24 hourly weather readings.  Please could the good scientists indicate how I might deal with this weird situation?  Thanks in advance!

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Jeannette/vol001of004/vol001_012_0.jpg

My instinct, they want TWYS so do so.  List that one as Hour "PM". ;D

That's comforting Janet - 'cos that's exactly what I've done. The readings are not those of 12 or 1 o'clock so they must be something...it's strange though to be sure ;)



I'm utterly baffled - no idea what's going on. So all I can suggest is transcribe it and hope we can figure it out when the data become available.

To stop my software getting confused, please make doubly certain to include the hour column in all the weather observations on such pages (I suggest putting 'PM' in the hour column for the anomalous ob). Then we will get all the conventional hourly observations at the correct times, and may eventually figure out what's going on with the odd one.

Thanks, Philip
;D ;D ;D

Perhaps though, the ditto should be written out for 1pm ?

good point Randi - it can't hurt and could be useful. If this does stop a few pages in then it's not a great problem anyway.

Randi

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Finarda

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2013, 12:57:08 am »
I've just started helping out and can't see how to do two main things:
1. when the time is stated as AM 1, 2, 3 etc and PM 1, 2, etc How do I encode this? "1AM" "AM1 "1 AM" "AM 1" "0100"?

The ship I did first wrote the lat/long as "North xx xx xx" and "West xx xx xx" but when I wrote exactly that it wouldn't accept it. How do I encode this?