Author Topic: Type What You See - Questions and Comments  (Read 32156 times)

Janet Jaguar

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2013, 01:40:23 am »
Welcome to Old Weather, Finarda.

I've just started helping out and can't see how to do two main things:
1. when the time is stated as AM 1, 2, 3 etc and PM 1, 2, etc How do I encode this? "1AM" "AM1 "1 AM" "AM 1" "0100"?
Exactly what is written in that line: 1,2,3 etc.  Since the AM/Pm are right above the 1's, you may make the optional choice of "AM 1" or "PM 1" but most of us consider that too much like work. ;)

Quote
The ship I did first wrote the lat/long as "North xx xx xx" and "West xx xx xx" but when I wrote exactly that it wouldn't accept it. How do I encode this?
This is a small bug in the system.  We are hoping it will eventually get fixed. :(

If the letter is before the number (e.g., N 37 12), it should be transcribed that way. NOTE: At the moment you need to click OK and then Close, and it will not be displayed on the map or below POSITION.

mapurves

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2013, 06:49:07 pm »
A note for the Science team.

The log keeper has reversed the Dry Bulb and Wet bulb temperatures for hours 9 am to noon inclusive on the Concord. (Note: I entered them as written.)

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Concord/vol012of040/vol012of040_124_0.jpg

Is this the best way to notify the science team of these sorts of oddities, or is this a better way, or will they catch these errors with their own data checking and so they really don't need to be notified?

Michael

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2013, 09:52:04 pm »
This is indeed the correct place to note or ask about oddities (in the Discussion threads is ok too), but the scientists do check for this error, so there is no need to mention it here.

They probably are reversed in this case (since it seems to be one watch), but in general we can't be sure - there may be some other problem. Since the log keeper has not indicated a problem, you are correct to enter them as they are written. I have seen wet higher than dry a number of times on RN and US ships.

When data is unambiguously in the wrong column, see: 'Weather Data in the Wrong Column' in Type What You See - Yes, but ...

When in doubt, it's safest to ask!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 09:53:38 pm by Randi »

mapurves

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2013, 12:10:05 am »
For the science team: on the Concord, Saturday, April 15, 1893, from 1 - 5 PM the pressure reading is a full inch too high. (I'm entering it as written.) At noon it is 29.88, at 1 PM it is 30.89 then at 6 PM it goes to 29.97 from 30.97 at 5 PM. I'm sure your error checking algorithms will catch it, but just in case...

Michael

Janet Jaguar

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2013, 02:01:31 am »
Thanks for the notice, Michael.  It helps the other transcribers also. 

mapurves

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2013, 02:49:02 am »
For the science team. On the Concord, 26 July 1893, the Concord left Gibraltar harbour at 7:00 p.m. Every so often the log writer forgets to enter one of the temperature columns, usually the P.M. set, although sometimes he leaves out the cloud amount or something else. (There must be something distracting him.) In this case, it seems to have happened again, and I suspect that the data entered as wet-bulb from 8:00 P.M. onwards are really the water temperatures and not the wet-bulb temps. You will notice that these data start just after the Concord leaves the harbour, and the temperatures are more indicative of the sea surface temperatures when she was coming into Gibraltar than they are to the wet bulb temperatures up to noon. As to which of the temperature columns the log writer neglected to enter, I will leave as an exercise for the reader.

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Concord/vol015of040/vol015of040_157_0.jpg

Michael

Janet Jaguar

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2013, 03:26:40 am »
I'm still hunting for a TARDIS to go lecture these young men on what we need in their log books.  Maybe finding out they are still important a century later might give them better focus. ::)

mapurves

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2013, 06:01:46 pm »
Janet,

   When you get your TARDIS maybe you could take along a couple of typewriters they could use. Barring that, perhaps you could give them a quick lesson or two in handwriting. Years ago when I took a course in Weather Observing with the Government of Canada we had to learn how to print numbers and letters "properly". At the time it seemed silly - I'm 24 I have to learn how to print!!! - , but after seeing just the first few log pages when I started working on the OW project I fully appreciated the rationale.

Michael

Janet Jaguar

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2013, 06:22:18 pm »
The primary problem isn't mostly the scrawls and scribbles.  The shape of script letters evolves over the decades.  My first grade teacher taught me to write my "Q" and "r" very different from what my mother was taught just 25 years earlier.  And every person will shape the letters as their grade school teachers taught them for the rest of their life.  And pre-electronic visual communication, the shape of letters varied also between locations and subcultures.  When reading logs from 1893, you are reading letter shapes as they were taught 150 years ago in a different part of the world.  Printing never did vary that much.  And standardizing what is used in any engineering or science is as good as a typewriter in making sure there are no numerical mistakes.

Our Helpful Links reference post starts with several aids in reading/transcribing older scripts.  Even those teaching different scripts than what we are getting are teaching useful techniques.

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2013, 12:15:51 pm »
I notice the Jamestown (1844) is on sea time so I am recording PM and AM. I haven't got far enough yet to observe if they change to civil time when in port.

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Jamestown/vol001of067/vol001of067_036_1.jpg

Craig

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2013, 01:32:59 pm »
When the Jamestown is in port the temperature data are recorded irregularly in the remarks. The time is given as a range. It is unambiguous when midnight or meridian is part of the range, but otherwise it will not be obvious to the climate team whether it is AM or PM, especially since the vessel is on sea time. Do we TWYS or should we add AM or PM (as I do when the time is recorded in 24-hour table format)?  For example "6 to 8" or "6 to 8 PM" in this link?

My guess is that we don't add anything but there is a fine line between not adding it in this case and adding it when the weather is in table format.

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Jamestown/vol001of067/vol001of067_054_0.jpg

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2013, 03:19:14 pm »
When the Jamestown is in port the temperature data are recorded irregularly in the remarks. The time is given as a range. It is unambiguous when midnight or meridian is part of the range, but otherwise it will not be obvious to the climate team whether it is AM or PM, especially since the vessel is on sea time. Do we TWYS or should we add AM or PM (as I do when the time is recorded in 24-hour table format)?  For example "6 to 8" or "6 to 8 PM" in this link?

My guess is that we don't add anything but there is a fine line between not adding it in this case and adding it when the weather is in table format.

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Jamestown/vol001of067/vol001of067_054_0.jpg

Bear had some periods with the temperature and pressure in the events, and Philip asked us to transcribe them as Weather Records using the end time of the watch.
See Bear -- Reference: http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3615.msg62962#msg62962
I think the same would apply here.

"My log starts at 1 PM !!!" / Nautical Day in: http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3191.msg51629#msg51629 has some advice, but I believe it was written before Philip was using the Hour field.
I agree that you should TWYS for Events, but that it would be OK to enter AM/PM with the hour if you are doing Weather Records.

I will confirm this with Philip (and revise the TWYS Nautical Day and Jamestown Reference & Discussion ;)).
(Mom always said "No rest for the wicked." ::))

Craig

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2013, 03:28:24 pm »
No rest for the OCD, she might have meant?  ;D

How about "Commenced"? which is 1 PM.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 03:31:06 pm by Craig »

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2013, 03:39:42 pm »
Nothing to record ;D

If there were something to record I would use 4PM because that is the end of the watch.

Randi

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Re: Type What You See - Questions and Comments
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2013, 10:21:24 am »
Here is Philip's response:
Quote
There's always another edge case.

I think as with Bear - transcribe as weather record, hour as end of watch, do add AM & PM, otherwise I'm going to get confused.

Thanks, Philip