Author Topic: Cloud Code Questions  (Read 12665 times)

okopho

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 09:36:18 pm »
I  have not done the Jeanette but I have been entering the like of

cum
nimb

as cum-nim from the drop down list, based on the fact that there was not enough room for the scribe to run them together across the column. I will continue to do this till told by the Boffins to change.

Just to clarify:

My post was only meant to relate to logs where it is known that multiple cloud codes are in use. The problem being that first-time users cannot know that that is the case until they've transcribed several logs from the same ship, and so it is easy to make mistakes.

But like you say, it would be good to get some feedback on this general issue.

Janet Jaguar

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 09:41:18 pm »
Please remember, we won't be settling on rules to be followed, because all rules must acknowledge all the transcribers who never sign on in the forum.  A clear case of TWYS and KISS, and let the experts on the analyst team straighten it out the resulting mess.  Giving them some transcriptions that are iffy is much more efficient from their POV than letting them do the transcribing. :)

Craig

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2013, 09:48:46 pm »
Of course, you are right in general, Janet. But the Jeannette is a bit of a special case because of the multiple compound cloud codes and all the transcribers who are working on her are on the forum (at least, those who have done a significant number of log pages so far). This means that we could agree amongst ourselves what is the best way to enter the data so that it is clear and easy to parse for the science team. We mustn't forget that they have to compare three versions of each entry and there is a good possibility with this log that no two will be the same and the entry would be rejected.

Pommy Stuart

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2013, 09:53:27 pm »
How do we distinguish which logs have 'multiple cloud codes' and which have split cloud names?
 :-\

okopho

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2013, 09:58:09 pm »
We mustn't forget that they have to compare three versions of each entry and there is a good possibility with this log that no two will be the same and the entry would be rejected.

Does rejecting an entry mean that the transcriptions are thrown out altogether? Or do the science team get to see the various transcriptions that have been done?

Randi

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2013, 10:02:52 pm »
Janet is correct. Philip has pointed that out several times.
As I remember it, they didn't even give us compound cloud types in the original list, we asked for them.
They may well treat Cum-Nim the same as Cum Nim :-\

The science team knows we can enter cloud codes from the drop-down list and 'as written', so I suspect they will preprocess them before doing any comparisons.

Our job is to transcribe what it written as accurately as possible. Interpreting it is their job. Fortunately, few logs are as complicated as Jeannette's.



Pommy Stuart

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2013, 10:02:53 pm »
Are these entries classed as Multiple Cloud codes?
I entered them - Cir-Cum from the drop down and Cir Cum Str (just typed in)

okopho

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2013, 10:10:34 pm »
How do we distinguish which logs have 'multiple cloud codes' and which have split cloud names?
 :-\

If you skim through a few of the example logs in this post (and also this one), it should be pretty obvious they are doing something different on that ship  ;)

I have only transcribed logs on the Jeanette, so I don't know how common using multiple lines is in other logs. But I don't think I'd worry too much about isolated cases.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 10:14:32 pm by okopho »

Randi

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2013, 10:14:07 pm »
We mustn't forget that they have to compare three versions of each entry and there is a good possibility with this log that no two will be the same and the entry would be rejected.

Does rejecting an entry mean that the transcriptions are thrown out altogether? Or do the science team get to see the various transcriptions that have been done?

Here is a comment from Philip (3 Sept 2012):
Quote
We keep everything - every box and character entered, nothing is deleted.

I then write software to use the entries to make climate (and history) records. This software evolves as I learn more about how best to use the data transcribed.

At the moment the software looks at each entry (every box on the interface) separately, and for the numeric values (date, position and weather), for each box it requires at least two people to have input the same contents.

So if three people all enter a noon weather observation, they all agree that the pressure is 30.02, two say the air temperature is 72 and one thinks it's 27, and one says the wind direction is NNW, one says NW and the third enters nothing, then the climate records produced will use a pressure of 30.02, a temperature of 72, but no wind direction (as no two people agreed on the wind).

If there are 24 weather entries on the page and all three people have entered all 24, it is easy to say which of person A's entries should be matched with which of person B's (and C's). If one has entered 24, one 12, and one 6, this matching becomes difficult, we will certainly fail to use some entries (as they will only have been entered by one person and we can't check their accuracy) and we may fail to use others (because person B entered the weather at 1pm but the software thought it was for noon and compared it with the wrong entry by person A).

There is endless opportunity for improvement in the processing software. I envisage a time, for example, where the software says 'Hmm, 2 72s and 1 27 - but 27 is much more likely a temperature given all the sea-ice mentioned on this page, I reckon someone's made a mistake and I'm going for 27'. Or 'only one pressure transcribed for noon today - 29.89 - but that one transcriber has a history of reliability and the value looks plausible given other values from nearby ships - I'm keeping it'. At the moment we're not clever enough for this, but we keep all the entries, future analysts will be cleverer.

Randi

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2013, 10:18:25 pm »
I think that in general, unless there is a hyphen, you should assume that they are separate.

If you see:
Cum
Nim
Cum Nim
you would probably be safe entering the last as 'Cum-Nim', but you would not be wrong to enter it as 'Cum Nim' since that is TWYS.

okopho

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2013, 11:18:56 pm »
Here is a comment from Philip (3 Sept 2012):
Quote
We keep everything - every box and character entered, nothing is deleted.

Thanks - it's nice to know that.

General conclusion: it is better to have transcribed and got it "wrong", than to have never transcribed at all.

Pommy Stuart

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2013, 12:11:40 am »
I think that in general, unless there is a hyphen, you should assume that they are separate.

If you see:
Cum
Nim
Cum Nim
you would probably be safe entering the last as 'Cum-Nim', but you would not be wrong to enter it as 'Cum Nim' since that is TWYS.

Now I am totally confused. Since I joined OW in PII I have been using the drop downs for all the entries with or without the hyphens (except three or more types in one box).
Have I stu__ed up all those separate entries I coupled with the hyphen from the drop down or not?
I do not remember any hyphenated entries in the Concord logs which means all mine could be wrong.  :-[
Looks like no more drop downs just TWYS.


Janet Jaguar

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2013, 12:46:07 am »
Drop down codes are never wrong, so long as they use the same single or pair of equivalent codes written.  (Order may change.)

TWYS is never wrong.  Typing the equivalent drop-down code is never wrong.

There is no one way, you have choices. ;D
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 12:47:53 am by Janet Jaguar »

Craig

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2013, 01:55:03 am »
Just a few points on this interesting discussion:

Philip doesn't "throw out" records but if he doesn't get a match on at least 2 out of 3  this will obviously require a manual intervention.  TWYS may not be "wrong" but it will eliminate information about line feeds that will affect the interpretation of the data in De Long's logs, at least. This may not be serious if Philip doesn't distinguish between, say, "Cir Cum" and "Cir-Cum", but we don't know.

I am only saying that we could save him some work if he gave us a hint about how we should treat these compound cloud codes. The usual argument against this is that transcribers not visiting the forum won't know what we agree upon. However, I don't think this concern is very important for the Jeannette since, so far, those visiting the forum account for well over 90% of the transcriptions for this ship.

I am probably tiring you repeating all this so I will stop now.  ;D


Janet Jaguar

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Re: Cloud Code Questions
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2013, 02:19:54 am »
Then we will also drop the subject and wait for Philip to notice it. ;D