Author Topic: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion  (Read 2492 times)

Danny252

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Re: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2017, 11:26:41 pm »
Firstly, some very useful books/links:

A Danish book, dated 1895, which appears to be the equivalent of the "... Pilot" guides. Most of the place names match those used in the logs, rather than modern names, and useful features include many small maps, and an index of place names near the end of the book (p. 169): http://www.kb.dk/e-mat/dod/113904011381_bw.pdf

A modern set of sailing directions, also useful in pulling out the locations of small islands: http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/NAV_PUBS/SD/Pub181/Pub181bk.pdf

Narsak = Narsaq: http://www.geonames.org/3421719/narsaq.html

Kagsiarsuk = Qassiarsuk: http://www.geonames.org/3420741/qassiarsuk.html

Tunugdliarfik Fjord = Tunulliarfik Fjord: http://www.geonames.org/3419141/tunulliarfik.html

Ikerasarsuk: The narrow sound between the islands of Hollander Island and Kingittoq,  60.709335? -46.406152?

Ikerasaitsiak = Nordlysets Lob: The narrow sound between the islands of Avatarmiut (to the SW) and Kerrortuskok (NE),  60.718624? -46.697239?

Inugsuatsiak: I believe it is the island at these coordinates; if not, it's one of the neighbouring ones: 60.743692? -46.842614?

Kakaligatsiak Fjord = Qaqaligatsiaq Fjord: Next fjord north of Bredefjord, 60.858370? -47.300266?

Ikerasassuaq (channel between island and mainland): http://www.geonames.org/3423244/ikerasassuaq.html

Torsukattak: Note this is different from Torsukattak Fjord about 20 miles North! http://www.geonames.org/3419239/torsukattak.html

Indre Kitsigsut Islands = Indre Kitsissut: http://www.geonames.org/3423104/indre-kitsissut.html

Simpson Passage: The channel between Tallorutit and the islets to the west, http://www.geonames.org/3419875/simpson-passage.html

Kobbermine Bugt: http://www.geonames.org/3422335/kobberminebugt.html

Arsanguit Island = Assannguit: http://www.geonames.org/3425360/assannguit.html

Kipisako Bay = Qipisaqqu: http://www.geonames.org/3420492/qipisaqqu.html

Sanerut = Sannerut: http://www.geonames.org/3420113/sannerut.html

Tavdlorutit = Tallorutit: http://www.geonames.org/3419461/tallorutit.html

Ikardlugssuak: http://www.geonames.org/3426156/ikarlussuak.html

Kugssuk Fjord = Qussuk: http://www.geonames.org/3420376/qussuk.html

Kapisilik = Kapisillit: http://www.geonames.org/3422515/kapisillit.html

Kornok Passage = Qoornup Sullua: http://www.geonames.org/3420453/qoornup-sullua.html

...and now for some exciting sailing way up in NE Greenland!

Gael Hamkes Bugt: http://www.geonames.org/3423742/gael-hamke-bugt.html

Clavering Island: http://www.geonames.org/3424107/clavering-o.html

Eskimonaes (Settlement/Radio Station = Bluie East Five: http://www.geonames.org/11612664/eskimonaes-station-historical.html

Cape Mary: http://www.geonames.org/3421938/kap-mary.html

St. Finschoya Island = (a badly written) Store Finsch: http://www.geonames.org/3419626/store-finsch.html

Cape Warren = Cape Borlase Warren: http://www.geonames.org/2760356/kap-borlase-warren.html

Hochstetter Forland: http://www.geonames.org/3423478/hochstetter-forland.html

Cape Rink = Kap Rink: location of a hunting station, http://www.geonames.org/2760213/kap-rink.html

Hochstetter Forland Hunting Station: I suspect this is the same as the Kap Rink hunting station, but unsure.

Peter Bugt: http://www.geonames.org/3421096/peter-bugt.html

N.W. Coal Point, Coal Point, Muskox Point: All are referenced as bearings when anchored in Peter Bugt. An N.W. Coal Point (Kul Pynt) exists in Geonames (link), but I have my doubts about whether that is NW Coal Point, or just Coal Point. Bearings listed 0000-0400 on this log page.


propriome

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Re: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2017, 05:18:38 pm »
Wow! Thank you so much Danny!!!
Quite a huge list of places... counting aliases i think we've more than doubled the actual reference ;)

I've already added all the placenames to the db and will soon extract infos to generate google maps, reference thread and csv.

I've also added a few more resources and your Danish book to the reference thread.

For the uncertain ones:
- Torgilsbu/Bluie East One... i think Torgilsbu location is the one you've pointed out. The Bluie East One at Prince Christian Sound is totally elsewhere, maybe, like the Bluie East Five it was relocated at a certain time (found no mentions of this though).
- The various Bluies - I've added them all except Bluie West Two (and your last post gave me a new hint i'll look into - i knew only it was in Coppermine Bay/Kobbermine Bugt, but Kipisaki was pretty puzzling me as i had found only a fjord of that name on the east coast). PS: Don't trust Wiki when it comes to geographic positions.. none of the Bluie was correctly placed, and i've directly experienced in the past their gps positions are often quite poor.
- Nugsuak Halvo: I've used Nuussuaq, i think the sound of the two names is similar enough.
- Kangek Island: There's a Kangeq island shortly southwest of Singarnak... i've used that one.
- Kingigtanguak Island: Very puzzling... i've used Kanginguaq for the more similar ending, but could really be either one.
- The Deadhs? Fjord = De Dodes Fjord, i've used The Deadhs Fjord as an alias. Even if it makes little sense, it's the only thing i can read as well in that logpage. It seems the result of someone asking "what's the name?" and another one reading aloud "[Th/D]e D[o-e]d's Fjord!" (the o in Dodes is the danish barred one - cant place it here on the forum).
- Eikerasak Settlement: Found nothing as well :(
- Skardlugsuak: As Randi said  ;D
- Narrsak Village: A place named Narsaq is on the peninsula north of the passage. I've used that one
- Hochstetter Forland Hunting Station: The Nanok Hunting Station was (is?) located between Kap Rink and Nils Hansen Naes. I think it's that one (all the other hunting places around were just huts and not a "station").
- Coal Point, Coal Point, Muskox Point: These are just driving me mad ;D Found none of them so far... i think the geonames NW Kal Pynt is most probably bad placed. There was a coal mine shortly south of Kulhus scientific station, so at least one of the coal points could be pretty near there... given the bearings, though, i think as well the one south of the mine should be the "main" Coal Point... will deepen searches.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 05:23:31 pm by propriome »

Danny252

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Re: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2017, 06:47:09 pm »
- The various Bluies - I've added them all except Bluie West Two (and your last post gave me a new hint i'll look into - i knew only it was in Coppermine Bay/Kobbermine Bugt, but Kipisaki was pretty puzzling me as i had found only a fjord of that name on the east coast). PS: Don't trust Wiki when it comes to geographic positions.. none of the Bluie was correctly placed, and i've directly experienced in the past their gps positions are often quite poor.

Yeah, I've also since come to the conclusion that some of those Bluies have bad locations on Wikipedia.

Regarding Bluie West Two, the Northland actually conducted a survey in Kipisako Bay of a "proposed air site". Quoting the log from 30 April 1941 and subsequent dates (link):

Quote
30 April
1337 Anchored in Kipisako Bay [...].
1432 Plane V171, Lieut. F.G. Westbrook, pilot, and Asst. ~ V.W. Foster, observer, took off on fight in vicinity of Akia I.
1440 Survey expedition away by boat for reconnaisance work at air site.

1 May
0810 Survey party away.
0910 V171 took off on survey flight.

2 May
0820 Survey party departed for proposed air site.

3 May
0810 Survey party departed for air-site

Kap Rink/Hochstetter Hunting Station: I've dug around a bit and yes, both of these names refer to the Nanok hunting station, with the Geonames marker being accurate.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 07:11:27 pm by Danny252 »

Danny252

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Re: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2017, 12:55:32 pm »
Even more code names have appeared in the logs - Northland is now docked at the mysterious "Base Onoto", with all location references in the log having been censored!

It turns out this is a code name for a location which already had a code name! Onoto = Bluie West One = Narsarssuak. The only source I can find for this is a fairly blank web page, but it does contain a list of about 20:

http://eurekaencyclopedia.com/index.php/Category:Greenland_History

RANCID Greenland.

BEADLE Thule, Greenland.
BIPED Ivigtut, Greenland.
BODKIN Sondrestromfjord, Greenland.
BUMBOAT Kajartalik, Greenland.
CANINE Torgilsbu, Greenland.
COCKER Eskimonaes, Greenland.
CURIO Angmagssalik, Greenland.
DISDAIN Scoresbysund, Greenland.
INSOLENCE Frederikshaab, Greenland.
MALACCA Godthaab, Greenland.
ONOTO Nararssuak, Greenland.
SANCHO Simiutak, Greenland.
SHEKEL Faeringerhavnen, Greenland.
SPIRITED Ivigtut, Greenland.
STERNUM Godhavn, Greenland.
STERNWALK MacKenzie Bay, Greenland.
VINEGAR Simiutakstromfjord, Greenland.

Most of the names are familiar as major towns or other "Bluie" locations, but there's a few that aren't.

All aliases added to map, ref & csv... i've guessed some of them as i had no other references other than the names. (Will eventually correct them as soon as our ships pass nearby and we have a few more references). Thanks Danny!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:30:14 pm by propriome »

Randi

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Re: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2017, 02:27:34 pm »
That explains why we have so many place names in the logs starting with Bluie ;D



I found https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/USN-NAVEXOS_P-474.html some time ago.
It wasn't any help at the time, but I just looked and it does include some of your locations, so maybe it will help for other countries too...
(I have found a lot of useful information under https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar ;))

jil

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Re: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2017, 03:47:42 pm »
Station Afirm (also spelt Affirm for the first month!) aka Qasigissat (but not the one that's already on the ref list)
60.67, -46.45

https://mapcarta.com/19187198
http://www.geonames.org/3420760/qasigissat.html

Place and alias added to map, ref & csv. Thanks Jil!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:30:48 pm by propriome »

jil

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Re: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2017, 09:02:55 pm »
Christianshaab/Qasigiannguit

68.82, -51.19

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qasigiannguit

jil

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Re: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2017, 12:11:31 pm »

Joke Slayer

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Re: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #24 on: Today at 02:02:29 pm »
Been having a look at ATKA July 1953, there are a new place names, some are probably codenames that I've been unable to find what they refer to

Saunders Island (also Appat)
76.56923, -69.74808

Mount Dundas (also Dundas Fjeld)
76.56028, -68.87861
 
Wolstenholme Fiord (Wolstenholme Fjord)
76.63194, -68.6375

Cape Dudley Digges (Kap Dudley Digges)
76.16111, -68.78306

Admiral Peary Monument (Cape York)
On Cape York, unable to find exact coordinates

Point Censor (July 9)
Unknown, possibly close to Svartenhuk

Edderfugle OER Islands (Duck Islands, Edderfugle?er)
74.03333, -57.81667
(NOTE: apparently there is also Ederfugle OER, 76.50417, -70.05778)


Stork (12 July)
Unknown, on/near North Star Bay, few thousand yards from Mt. Dundas

Nasarssuk (12 July)
Unknown, near/on Saunders Island

Point Baker (19 July)
Unknown, on/near North Star Bay, few thousand yards from Mt. Dundas

Point Able (19 July)
Unknown, on/near North Star Bay, few thousand yards from Mt. Dundas

Point Capsule (July 20-24)
Unknown,
When ship is at 74 02N, 58 19W, log reports 083 t, 85 miles from Point Capsule

Kraulshavn
74.11117, -57.05962

Kraulshavn Inlet
Unknown, possibly 74.116344, -57.107024

Point Cottage (28 July)
Unknown, Probably a few miles from Cape York

Randi

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Re: Greenlandic Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #25 on: Today at 03:15:08 pm »
I didn't have any luck with the exact coordinates for the Admiral Peary Monument either.
However, I did learn about its construction and how useful a cow can be at sea ;)
EAGLE ISLAND JOURNAL



When you post a place name that you can't find or are unsure of, it helps if you include a link to the log page. Sometimes that will provide a clue. Matteo, and others, do a fantastic job of tracking down many obscure places!

For example: Point Censor: https://catalog.archives.gov/OpaAPI/media/12096257/content/arcmedia/dc-metro/594258-navy-deck-logs/00003/atka-agb-3-1953-07/atka-agb-3-1953-07-0025.jpg
« Last Edit: Today at 03:24:22 pm by Randi »