Author Topic: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion  (Read 18786 times)

Randi

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2014, 02:10:59 pm »
We already have http://www.geonames.org/ on our list - along with a lot of other sources: http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3637.0  ;D

I haven't used it too much, but Matteo (propriome) uses it for the Reference topics ;)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 02:20:29 pm by Randi »

propriome

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2014, 09:25:25 am »
Hi exim,

Yup i'm using mainly geonames.org for references... beside being the source for a lot of other map sites (mapcarta, toporama, itouchmap, and a lot of others) it allows users to correct positions (some places are slightly out of position, due to having been initially entered with the only available source, degrees-minute, and therefore up to 5-10km out of target) and to add aliases, historical names or missing names.
The interface is not perfectly user friendly if you use the map to visually search (it has little glitches - like when you're searching something you're automatically zoomed in and unless you clear your search you're not able to zoom out), but if you know the general area the ship is in, i found not too difficult (and sometimes quite fun) to find a specific place.

For text searches i'd say anything could do the trick as long if comprises points, islands and geographical features (the esri arcview with autocomplete seems pretty nice indeed, though old historical names are probably not comprised)... for visual searches mapcarta (my previous preferred source for reference) is probably more user friendly, but does not allow place editing, and existing places are updated from geonames more or less monthly.

Specific areas have some specific resources... Canada is pretty well covered by Toporama, while US and Alaska are nicely covered by EarthNC (NOAA maps in transparency over google satellite view).
If you can read cyrillic, Loadmap covers almost the whole world and has Russian Army detailed maps (up to 1:50000) over google maps view (no trasparency but overimposed maps can be turned on/off)... it has solved a couple of pretty tricky situations.

The main missing resource at the moment would be some detailed Admiralty charts for China names... those are indeed terribly difficult to work out  ;D

Randi

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2014, 10:24:17 am »
Quote
it allows users to correct positions (some places are slightly out of position, due to having been initially entered with the only available source, degrees-minute, and therefore up to 5-10km out of target)
Some are more than slightly out of position ;D
Mapcarta showed a couple of Cuban locations off the west coast of Africa (exactly 50 degrees off the correct location).
I corrected them, but then Mapcarta showed me more...

propriome

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2014, 11:28:22 am »
Yup there are some very badly placed, and some of them are not even modifiable by normal users  :-\

Just out of curiosity, do you remember which locations? The worst cases i've found were some places around the -180/180 line in which the sign had been horribly mismatched, and a couple of Russian Mys on the Bering Sea had jumped in the middle of nowhere Chukotka ;D

Edit: Found them, Eliseo and La Gabriela... but now i see them in correct place both on geonames and on mapcarta...

Quote
it allows users to correct positions (some places are slightly out of position, due to having been initially entered with the only available source, degrees-minute, and therefore up to 5-10km out of target)
Some are more than slightly out of position ;D
Mapcarta showed a couple of Cuban locations off the west coast of Africa (exactly 50 degrees off the correct location).
I corrected them, but then Mapcarta showed me more...
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 11:39:17 am by propriome »

Danny252

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2014, 11:39:27 am »
Hi exim,

Yup i'm using mainly geonames.org for references... beside being the source for a lot of other map sites (mapcarta, toporama, itouchmap, and a lot of others) it allows users to correct positions (some places are slightly out of position, due to having been initially entered with the only available source, degrees-minute, and therefore up to 5-10km out of target) and to add aliases, historical names or missing names.
The interface is not perfectly user friendly if you use the map to visually search (it has little glitches - like when you're searching something you're automatically zoomed in and unless you clear your search you're not able to zoom out), but if you know the general area the ship is in, i found not too difficult (and sometimes quite fun) to find a specific place.

For text searches i'd say anything could do the trick as long if comprises points, islands and geographical features (the esri arcview with autocomplete seems pretty nice indeed, though old historical names are probably not comprised)... for visual searches mapcarta (my previous preferred source for reference) is probably more user friendly, but does not allow place editing, and existing places are updated from geonames more or less monthly.

Just chipping in to say my search method is pretty much exactly the same as this - Geonames for the links, but Mapcarta if I need to browse around an area to try and find something.

One problem with Mapcarta is that it's sometimes quite unreliable at displaying locations - it'll hide markers despite there being no others nearby until you zoom in very closely, and in densely-marked areas it sometimes doesn't show some at all. There's also the fact that Mapcarta doesn't show the "-" for negative longitudes, which means I have to remember to re-insert them if linking in these threads - easier with Geonames as they're already displayed!

Randi

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2014, 11:44:37 am »
Yup there are some very badly placed, and some of them are not even modifiable by normal users  :-\

Just out of curiosity, do you remember which locations? The worst cases i've found were some places around the -180/180 line in which the sign had been horribly mismatched, and a couple of Russian Mys on the Bering Sea had jumped in the middle of nowhere Chukotka ;D

Edit: Found them, Eliseo and La Gabriela... but now i see them in correct place both on geonames and on mapcarta...

Quote
it allows users to correct positions (some places are slightly out of position, due to having been initially entered with the only available source, degrees-minute, and therefore up to 5-10km out of target)
Some are more than slightly out of position ;D
Mapcarta showed a couple of Cuban locations off the west coast of Africa (exactly 50 degrees off the correct location).
I corrected them, but then Mapcarta showed me more...

Yep ;D
http://forum.geonames.org/gforum/posts/list/60/25.page#17257
It took me a bit to figure out how to fix it and then more time to get up the courage, but it worked!

Randi

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2014, 12:04:42 pm »
I first learned http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/index.html, so I still use that quite a bit - though it is probably not one of the best sources.
Like Danny252, I have learned to use Mapcarta if I know the general area.
For verifying names, I like http://geonames.nga.mil/namesgaz/.
Have to try to use geonames.org and arcgis.com more ;)

However, since I favor the old ships I use http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/browseByCategory, http://historicalcharts.noaa.gov/, and various Pilot Guides quite a bit.

jil

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2014, 07:24:27 am »
Auau Channel, Hawaii: 20.82, -156.68

http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/usaname.php?uni=358627&fid=usageo_319

Added to map, ref & csv. Thanks jil
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 04:31:57 pm by propriome »

Danny252

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2014, 05:48:46 pm »
Posted on behalf of my lovely assistant on the Yorktown:

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Yorktown/vol005of040_jpg_clean/vol005of040_029_1.jpg

Tuckers Beach Light or Little Egg Harbor Light
The location is somewhere around Little Egg Harbor/Tuckerton, NJ, but I can't find an exact location - the original light was washed away, the original channel it marked is now gone, and there's confusingly a replica light built away from the original location.

Found in this 1888 David Rumsey Map of Egg Harbour: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~26233~1100508 a little to the northeast, past Atlantic City, on the Great Bay

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Yorktown/vol005of040_jpg_clean/vol005of040_031_1.jpg

Absecon Lighthouse, 39.37, -74.41
http://www.geonames.org/9821961/absecon-lighthouse.html

North East End Light
Positioned at the NE end of Five Fathom Bank: http://www.njlhs.org/njlight/northeast.html

Five Fathom Shoal Light
Positioned on Five Fathom Bank: http://www.njlhs.org/njlight/fivefatham.html

Fenwick Id Lt Ship - presumably refers to Fenwick Island Light, 38.45, -75.05
http://www.geonames.org/4142496/fenwick-island-lighthouse.html

A lightvessel was indeed stationed on Fenwick Shoals or Fenwick Island Shoals, open sea a few miles to the east. Added them as well

Winter Quarter Shoal Lightship - also known as Quarter Shoal Lightship

Fort Monroe, 37.00, -76.31
http://www.geonames.org/6940416/fort-monroe.html

Old Point Comfort Light - also known as Fort Monroe Light

All places and aliases added to map, ref & csv. Thanks Danny
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 01:02:02 pm by propriome »

Randi

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2014, 06:04:30 pm »
 ;D

Danny252

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2014, 06:46:13 pm »
Turns out that having one person transcribe whilst the other hunts down locations is a very efficient transcription method!

Randi

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2014, 06:56:38 pm »
 ;D ;D ;D

Randi

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2014, 09:31:53 pm »
Coitlah Point, now Koitlah Point: United States - http://mapcarta.com/23945666
48.39, -124.64

Place and alias added to map, ref & csv. Thanks Randi
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 01:02:43 pm by propriome »

Randi

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2014, 12:31:29 pm »
Tatoosh Island Light is probably Cape Flattery Lighthouse

Thanks Randi. I've separated the Cape Flattery Lighthouse (adding the alias as Tatoosh Island Lighthouse) from the two existing places
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 01:23:08 pm by propriome »

Danny252

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Re: US (non-Alaskan) Place Names -- Discussion
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2014, 06:22:47 pm »
Tatoosh Island Light is probably Cape Flattery Lighthouse

I can confirm this one  - I spent a while researching it myself!

Edit: Also, Little Egg Harbor Light gained an extra H in Geonames, becoming Little Hegg Harbor Light, which you've copied over - pretty sure this is a typo by a geonames transcriber. I've corrected it on that site.

Totally my fault for Hegg Harbor! I've created the place on geonames, since it was not existing. I'm still wondering how that additional H has jumped there :-[

Thanks as well for the Cape Flattery/Tatoosh Island Light confirm :)

« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 01:24:27 pm by propriome »