Author Topic: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?  (Read 4190 times)

AvastMH

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Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« on: April 19, 2015, 07:45:07 pm »
Hi folks,
please could anyone help me with the meaning of the double letter 'o' or zero. in this page (e.g. 9.03 a.m. and 10.15 a.m.):

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Patterson/Book%2016/IMG_6579_1.jpg

Many thanks,
Joan

Maikel

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2015, 07:53:22 pm »
Silly suggestion perhaps, looks like a pair of glasses, so perhaps the meaning is "in sight"? 8)

AvastMH

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2015, 08:01:33 pm »
Interesting idea!

Kept transcribing and I'VE GOT A VOLCANO GOING OFF - YEEEEEEHA!  I'll finish the trans and pop it in the correct thread. I'm SO excited  ;D ;D ;D

Janet Jaguar

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2015, 09:04:12 pm »
Cool about the volcano.   :)

I agree with Maikel, it is the only thing that fits in the grammar.
Quote
High I. and Henderson I. "sighted" and change course to NExN ... change course to SxW1/2W with bluff and stream in"sight"(at head of bight in N'd side of Korovin I.)

Maikel

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2015, 07:54:41 am »
Other suggestion, in line?

propriome

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2015, 08:31:55 am »
It's just a speculation... but looking at where the ship was coming from, where was headed and where the two islands (Henderson and High) are, in the  9:03 mention, maybe that symbol could mean "opposite" (one abeam on starboard, the other abeam on port)?
Another option could be "aligned", but i think it's less probable unless the ship has gone quite to the northwest (or quite to the southeast) of Korovin, while still being able to see both islands...
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 03:35:19 pm by propriome »

Maikel

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2015, 03:14:49 pm »
Your guess is as good as mine. :)

Janet Jaguar

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2015, 03:21:19 pm »
I'm certainly not putting it in the official Abbreviations list until we can find corroboration for one of our guesses.  :)

propriome

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2015, 03:45:52 pm »
Hi there...

Sorry Maikel! Thought you had posted the question at the start of the thread instead of Joan, and replied accordingly...  :-[ :)

Yup of course "inline/aligned" is a completely plausible option, i'd still prefer "opposite", with the two circles drawing a 180 degrees arc to the two points, centered on ship (but it could also represent a line passing through the two points, with the ship at one extremity).

Anyway as Janet says, better wait for some more confirmation, as both make sense and maybe there are even other explanations. Searched the net a little but found quite nothing so far...

AvastMH

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2015, 05:15:07 pm »
Perhaps I should find a map and try to work out where the ship was in relation? A job for later tonight!

HatterJack

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2015, 06:53:37 am »
The most likely explanation I can think of is steaming toward the center of the channel between Henderson Island and High Island (along the heading of what is now the Alaska Marine Highway/Sand Point Ferry ship lane), but that strikes me as a little odd to describe it thus, as the channel would be more accurately described as splitting Popof Island and Korovin Island.

The other plausible explanation (to be fair, I may very well be wrong in positing this) is that it's a reference to the split rock outcroppings that pretty much surround most of Korovin Island. Using their headings vs current(ish) maps of the region, it looks like they were using sightings of these rock formations for a couple course corrections (which would actually make sense, as using them as landmarks would make it fairly easy to split between Henderson and Korovin, keeping both abeam holding a NExN-ish heading, as they did). Unfortunately, the rock formations on the south side of Korovin appear to have been claimed by the sea (or by man, I'm not entirely sure, given Korovin has some unnaturally straight sections of coastline), but they can be seen quite clearly on the northward side of the island, particularly near the bight on the northward side of the island (a bit WNW of Grosvold Bay). This would also explain the second use of the symbol with regard to the northern bight, as there is a stream coming down from the bluff near the midpoint of the bight.

As an aside, I think it's rather unfortunate that we missed an opportunity when naming Henderson Island. Given that there's already a more famous Henderson Island in the Pitcairns, and the Aleutian Henderson's shape, it would have made for a rather apt Orca (which would be appropriate given the population of Resident and Biggs' in the region). Perhaps if the AAAS gets their way, and a cetacean bill of rights ever becomes a thing, we could see a revisiting of the naming of the Aleutian Henderson Island.

Kevin

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2015, 04:00:25 am »
The symbol means 'in range' - that is juxtaposed like a gun-sight such that you know the ship is on a particular line of position. A common piloting technique. You can see from a careful reading that they turn NE x N when the W point of the island is (1 1/4?) mile abeam and then pass N of Korovin -- then you see the symbol again describing "with bluff and stream in o-o". Helps to see the chart: http://mapshop.com/noaa-charts/alaska/16553-chart.html 

Janet Jaguar

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2015, 04:33:58 am »
Perfect - and none of us guessed it right.  NOW it is in Abbreviations (non-weather)!

- in range. Transcribe this as "in range".  A navigation term - juxtaposed like a gun-sight such that you know the ship is on a particular line of position. A common piloting technique. (per Kevin Wood)  Example:  "a/c SxW1/2W with bluff and stream in o-o".

Randi

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2015, 07:19:39 am »
Thanks, Kevin!

AvastMH

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Re: Crossed through double 'O' or 'zero'?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2015, 01:38:12 pm »
Thanks for reviving this oddity Hatterjack, and thanks to Kevin for solving it  :D