Author Topic: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...  (Read 211732 times)

brjrn

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RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« on: November 23, 2010, 11:48:11 pm »
Would it be posible to record on this site details of burials at sea. I have just had one burial and it recorded all details, name, date and Lat Long of burial. This may be of use to Family History Reseachers. I found the details of this death on CWGC web site. This only gives details of date and where Buried/Remembered. In this case on the Plymouth memorial. It does not include details of the actual burial or where. I have already been in touch with a family member on this case and they were thankful for the additional info on the final resting place and other details. The man concerned was buried at sea from Vengance but was actually a member of Talbot ships company. If they took the trouble of researching Talbot they would not have found this detail.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 04:41:03 pm by Janet Jaguar »

pliget

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2010, 08:37:51 pm »
Very good idea brjrn

I have just come across my first:

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33654/ADM53-33654-293_1.jpg

On 23rd August 1916, Percy Hall, 30, Butcher on HMS Andes died following an epileptic fit in Lat 66 37N Long 14 30W

There were no relevant entries on the 24th

On the 25th:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33654/ADM53-33654-294_1.jpg

however, at 0935: Stopped and Held Funeral Service.
and at 0941: Committed the Body of Percy Hall, 30 Years, Butcher, to the Deep. Lat 66 41N Long 18 51W.

Rest in Peace (my comment)




navalhistory

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2010, 10:40:04 pm »
BRJRN

This is really useful. To the best of my knowledge, there is little information on the positions of burials at sea as distinct from cemeteries.

You can find all RN casualties in these periods at http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1003-Intro.htm . I know Don Kindell who compiled all these casualty lists would welcome this information.

Thanks,

Gordon

kin47

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2010, 07:27:21 am »
Hello

Yes, knowing a location of a burial of sea is very important.

Even today, graves are being found around the world for men whose bodies had been presumed buried at sea.  A confirmation is always important.

All best

don

pliget

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 01:19:55 pm »
H.M. Laurentic   7th September 1916  40 56N 70 43W

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM_53-46295/ADM%2053-46295-006_1.jpg

0115 Departed the life from heart failure Private William John Marshall R.M.L.I. - R.F.R. Official No. 6175 C~p~lton

1245 Stopped Port Engine. Read Burial Service & committed the body of Private William John Marshall R.M.L.I. to the deep.

kin47

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 02:02:50 pm »
Hello Pliget

Many thanks on Marshall. 

Your C~p~lton is Chatham, his barracks.  The Ch, Ply, Po you see in Marines official numbers are Chatham, Plymouth, Portsmouth and it indicates which Marine establishment they entered upon joining service.

The R.F.R. indicates he had served his commitment pre war, joining on 18 February 1891, and joined the Royal Fleet Reserve.  He was called up in the Mobilisation.  To complicate things, further, there were A and B reserves, but that's a story for another time.

Keep up the good work.

don

brjrn

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 09:16:03 pm »
Kin 47 are you the Don of the RN History site. If so I have just been reading your page on the Koningsberg sinking. Great stuff. Any way my reason for replying is the original post in this  thread. Here are the details of the person concerned:

12.00 (Noon) Wieghed and proceeded; stopped; Committed to the deep the mortal remains of Capt F Thomas RMLI of HMS Talbot killed this morning. Position Lat 6-19S Long 38-57E.
 
This was HMS Vengance and refers to Francis Hastings Thomas who is commemorated on the plymouth war memorial.

I have also just completed HMS Mersey at the Konigsberg battle and have the following info from the ships log:
6/7/1915
Killed in Action:
John George Ransom    CPO    ON 155151
Colin Macdonald     AB   ON 228014 RFR
John Osmand               AB   ON 198849 RFR
Henry George Staines AB   ON 215246       

Wounded Seriously:
Alexander William Henderson   AB   ON 164842 (Since died)
Reginald John Rolls         SBS   ON 350785 (Since died)
Henry Joyce            P.O1   ON 132956

Slightly wounded:
Stovold            AB

Lieut Hearly RNR also slightly wounded

8 July 1915 Tirene Bay

5.45 Black Cock came alongside & embarked Officers and Burial party for burial of Henderson AB (Died of wounds)

brjrn

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 09:31:11 pm »
As a follow up to the above post re AB Henderson burial at sea on 8/7/1915. I just checked the CWGC entry for him and it has his date of death as the 17/7/1915. Could just be a typo 17 instead of 7. he must have died on the 6th or 7th to have been the subject of a bural at sea leaving at 05.45AM on the 8th. I am assuming that he was buried from the 'Black Cock' as there is no mention of an actual service in Mersey's log and it makes sense to move a small boat rather than a largeish Monitor.

brjrn

kin47

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 01:09:46 am »
Hi brjrn

Guilty as charged, but the section on the KONIGSBERG Gazettes are the work of Gordon Smith.

Would it be possible to get a copy of the page showing Henderson's burial on 8 July?

The Admiralty Death Ledger, who was probably the source of the  CWGC date, also says 17 July.  Working with handwritten records, slashes are sometimes taken as "1"'s with this result.  The fact he was buried on 8 July is conclusive and will be forwarded to CWGC for amendment.

On the lighter side, if I may in such a sober occasion, I can see a Monty Python skit were the poor soul is trying convince the Captain he is not dead, despite his certificate.

Thank you for all your hard work.

All best

don
 

brjrn

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 04:40:48 pm »
Hi Don,

Unfortunately we can't go back to the pages we have seen until the ship has been completed. Then you can go and look at the logs. I think we are a long way off finishing Mersey just now. I did however make a transcript but it is only my transcripton on a word document.

I don't know if the team can access the page and send it to you.

Regards

brjrn

kin47

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 06:46:39 pm »
Thanks brjrn

I came in from the other direction and obtained his service record.

Per service record, Henderson dangerously wounded in action on 6 July.  Declared dead 7 July.  Per information from logs, as well.

I will update my end and send CWGC a copy.

Good work.  Keep it up.

All best

don

pliget

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2010, 07:41:13 pm »

On the lighter side, if I may in such a sober occasion, I can see a Monty Python skit were the poor soul is trying convince the Captain he is not dead, despite his certificate.


Haha - yes I can just see Michael Palin now, trying to convince "Captain" John Cleese".

brjrn

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Re: Burials at sea
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 11:49:08 pm »
Thanks brjrn

I came in from the other direction and obtained his service record.

Per service record, Henderson dangerously wounded in action on 6 July.  Declared dead 7 July.  Per information from logs, as well.

I will update my end and send CWGC a copy.


Thanks Don, quick work, nice to be able to help set the record straight. As a keen family historian myself it is important to have the correct date of death. The place of burial (lat long) may be recorded in the Tug 'Black Cock' logs. although I doubt we will be able to see them.

As an aside, I e-mailed you through your web site about this matter. If you respond I have a matter you might help me with if you can get records that quickly.. I had a relative killed on the RN traWLER bEN aRDEN WHEN IT STRUCK A MINE OFF dOVER.. Ihave seen info on the web about the incident but any other info /details would be welcome.

brjrn

cyzaki

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Pte John A Charlick
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2010, 10:55:16 am »
On board the Caesar in Bermuda.

Pte John A Charlick was reported missing on 6th October 1915 and found dead (they recovered his body, I presume from the water) on 7th October 1915. Now on the 9th October they are holding an inquiry into his death.



Does anyone know what the outcome was? I've never seen an inquiry before when there's been a death.

cyzaki

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Re: Pte John A Charlick
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2010, 11:05:25 am »
On the 13th October a party of witnesses was landed to attend the inquest in to the death of Pte Charlick. Seems like something suspicious was going on - never seen this much interest in a death on board before.