Author Topic: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...  (Read 217426 times)

Tegwen

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1005 on: July 22, 2017, 11:49:55 am »
I am currently working on HMS Fox. Her log page for the 17th of November 1915 is here. She was in Suez. https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-42080/0011_1.jpg
At 3.15pm it records that she landed a funeral party for the funeral of.... and there is no name!!
There is no record of a death at all, on the previous days log, nor on any of the preceding days. This is the link to the log page for the 16th of November. https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-42080/0011_0.jpg
I did some research through the Naval History Casualties list & discovered that an RMLI Private named Henry Burden was the casualty on the 16th of November. I googled him & came upon some wonderful work that has been done by the Misterton & West Stockwith History Society, researching his history for the Nottinghamshire Roll of Honour. It is great to see this level of detail published for WW1 casualties. http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/rollofhonour/People/Details/22267
I noticed a tiny discrepancy on the cause of Henry Burden s death. The Roll of Honour mentions that RN&RM War Graves Roll records that the cause of death was 'killed or died by means other than disease, accident or enemy action.". Naval History casualties records his death as "sccident" (sic) (tiny typo could be corrected next time Maikel or Caro is working in that area)
The log gives nothing to help us get closer, not even mentioning the death. The only point which may be of relevance is that the 16ths log records that four warrants were read at 5.40am and that as a result four men were despatched to prison in Cairo.
My conjecture was that he may have been killed, by them, possibly in a fight or other incident.
However, I contacted the Misterton & West Stockwith History Society, via an email address on the internet.
I received an immediate response from a David Seymour confirming that their understanding was that Henry Burden died while on shore leave, by being hit by a train, while drunk. They have actually spoken to his descendants about the incident & that is their understanding. David sent me an article from a local newspaper confirming this, although not the fact that he was drunk!
It included text of a letter sent by the chaplain of HMS Fox to his parents describing his death & funeral & offering condolencies.
Presumably the imprisonment of four crew members was that his mates were disciplined for their presence at the incident.
I have remembered Henry Burden on the British Legion?s Every man remembered website. http://www.everymanremembered.org/profiles/soldier/473724/
Congratulations to the Misterton & West Stockwith History Society for their excellent research.
RIP Pte HENRY BURDEN. RMLI of West Stockwith.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 02:22:23 pm by Tegwen »

AvastMH

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1006 on: July 22, 2017, 07:10:23 pm »
What an amazing bit of history needlework, Keith - stitching a life's story back together again. I can't imagine how sad it must have been for his mum and dad to loose three children in that one war. And what a sorry event that one death was suffered whilst out trying to enjoy a tiny bit of personal time in amongst the battles that lasted 4 years.

Rest In Peace Pte HENRY BURDEN. RMLI of West Stockwith.

Caro

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1007 on: July 25, 2017, 09:16:07 pm »
Nice work, Keith.

Dean

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1008 on: August 01, 2017, 12:16:48 am »
Absolutely amazing what we have found as we 'wander through history' doing these logs!

Great job, Keith!!

jil

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1009 on: August 19, 2017, 12:40:55 pm »
HMS Galatea 21st March 1919 in dry dock at Wallsend - https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-42347/0043_1.jpg
Quote
Alfred Edward Minter. Male. aged 35. Stoker 1st class, British. Home address. 1 Caletock St. East Greenwich. Accidentally killed by falling over ship's side into dry dock
From CWGC record - he was the son of William John and Emily Minter and the husband of Ellen Minter.

Rest in peace, Alfred Minter

Tegwen

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1010 on: September 04, 2017, 05:23:30 pm »
HMS FOX, 20th Feb 1917, on route from Sokotra (off Somalia) to Aden. Records the death of Henry W Nye, M11456 (DEV) of Dysentry, and at 4 pm the same day his burial at sea. https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-42095/0013_0.jpg.

Extrapolating between the positions at Noon and 8pm gives an approximate location for the funeral of Lat 13.3, Long 49.4.

RIP Henry Nye.

dorbel

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1011 on: September 10, 2017, 06:52:47 pm »
Another feature of the recording of the causes of naval deaths, both at sea and in port, is that some of these were inevitably suicides. At a time when suicide was a crime, carried a great social and religious stigma and probably had an effect on pension rights, the Navy went to great lengths to mark these deaths as accidental. I have certainly seen several in logs that I have done and it is possible that Tegwen's Henry Burden fell into that category.

Maikel

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1012 on: September 18, 2017, 10:42:11 am »
H.M.S. Caronia

23 March 1915 - At Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Peter Donnelly, fireman aged 35, died 8.20am of fractured skull, result of fall from Jacob's ladder into ship's boat at 10.20am 22nd March when boats crew were embarking H.M.S. "Caronia" after exercise "Abandon Ship"

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-37167/0123_0.jpg

studentforever

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1013 on: October 15, 2017, 05:03:02 pm »
"Diana" records the sale of deceased ERA's effects on 8 April 1918. A little digging around Naval History and CWGC identified the deceased as William A Wiltshire 271689 who died in Singapore on 19th Jan. He is buried in Kranji Cemetery grave 37.E.12. There are no further details in either source.

RIP William Wiltshire

Tegwen

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1014 on: October 24, 2017, 05:08:34 pm »
Another feature of the recording of the causes of naval deaths, both at sea and in port, is that some of these were inevitably suicides. At a time when suicide was a crime, carried a great social and religious stigma and probably had an effect on pension rights, the Navy went to great lengths to mark these deaths as accidental. I have certainly seen several in logs that I have done and it is possible that Tegwen's Henry Burden fell into that category.

Sorry, I missed this one when it was posted. I agree that many of the deaths that we see were suicide, I have reported a few definite & a few possible myself. It is indeed possible that he threw himself under the train, but the family's understanding, as reported by the Misterton & W Stockwith History Society is that he was drunk & that it was an accident. That of course does not mean that it wasnt actually suicide while affected by alcohol.

Whatever the cause I trust that he rests in peace.


studentforever

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1015 on: November 01, 2017, 10:09:14 pm »
10 Jul 1918
John Wheelan RNR, stoker, service number 7034S, aged 27 was the son of John & Margaret Whelan, Upper King St, Wexford. He is commemorated on the Plymouth Naval Memorial.

Earlier that day he died during the administration of choloroform from heart failure

RIP John Whelan

Tegwen

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Re: RN Burials at sea and other recorded deaths...
« Reply #1016 on: November 03, 2017, 04:59:52 pm »
Hi

I wonder if anyone can help with a casualty query from HMS FOX. She is in Archangel in 1919 & at 11pm on the 7th of July records receipt of 3 dead men's effects. Here is the log page.
 http://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-42115/ADM%2053-42115-006_1.jpg

Two of the men are relatively easy to read & to trace. They are John Sexton (Leading seaman, No J24832 ) & Thomas Cheesebrough (Ordinary Seaman No J84593). The dates etc of their death are recorded in the Naval History Casualties list here. http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1919b.htm. It has also been easy to find details on the revised Commonwealth War Graves site, including their memorials etc. They are recorded as killed in a mine explosion. That has not been recorded in the log, so I guess took place up river, where several detatchments of men have been sent, while Fox stayed in Archangel.

The difficulty comes with the third. The name is hard to read, my best guess is Sandler, but several other possibiliites exist. I can find no possible candidates either in Naval Casulaties or in the Commonwealth War Graves site, where it is possible to search by date of death & fairly easy as the numbers of casualties is low compared with the war years.

Obviously he could be a civillian seaman, so may not turn up in any of these searches, but it would be good to find him & remember him properly if possible.

Any help gratefully received.

K